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God and Suffering

Entry 2123, on 2021-04-28 at 21:47:21 (Rating 3, Religion)

I just noticed that I have been concentrating on politics a lot recently, in this blog. It has been a while since I did a good, old fashioned, anti-religion rant. It usually takes some sort of event to trigger my rants, and yes, you guessed it, such an event has just occurred. So note that I don't criticise religion unless it gives me good reason to; in other words: they started it!

The local Jehovah's Witness group (in fact a member of that group called Elizabeth) posted a hand-addressed and hand-written letter which arrived in our mailbox recently. I have to admit, I am quite impressed by the degree of effort she put in. Not only did it cost them postage, but both the envelope and letter itself were hand-written. I'm not being sarcastic here; I am genuinely impressed!

And the subject material of the letter is also very interesting. It is the old philosophical - or maybe theological - question which has interested me for years: why does God allow suffering? Of course, I see no reason to think a god even exists, and I certainly reject the existence of the Christian god, but this is more a matter of intellectual interest, rather than a discussion of reality.

So that sounds like a good start, but unfortunately, things did go a bit down-hill from there. The entire argument explaining the "problem of evil" (why bad things happen to good people, while bad people often do well) is left to some Bible quotes.

Clearly these people don't really have much understanding of their target audience. If I am prepared to use the Bible as a serious source of knowledge I am probably already quite committed to Christianity, but I get these impression the JWs are really going after converts, in which case the object of their admonitions might not take the Bible too seriously.

If I wanted to convert a Christian to Islam would I ask them to read the Koran? if I wanted them to give up religion and accept science, would I ask them to read the Origin of Species? Well, I might, but I suspect my success rate would be very low.

But, that aside, I am always ready to look at other people's perspectives, so I did look up the Bible references they gave, and here they are...

Regarding the world's current problems (I think she means COVID), she listed Isaiah 33:24 which states "No resident will say I am sick". Elizabeth added that we all look forward to that time. The actual verse from the NIV is "No one living in Zion will say, 'I am ill'; and the sins of those who dwell there will be forgiven."

Zion was a small area of ancient Jerusalem, so it is a bit of a stretch to say this might be applied to the whole world. Also, the book of Isaiah was theoretically written in the 8th century BCE. As far as I know, the promise still hasn't been fulfilled almost 3000 years later. How much longer is it going to take?

She then asks "Will suffering ever end?" and refers to Revelation 21:3,4 where God promises that all suffering will end. Here's the exact quote: "And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.'"

Revelation is a difficult book to interpret and it is not clear exactly when this event will happen. Elsewhere in the Bible, it strongly implies that the end times will occur within the lifetime of the people who lived at the same time as the purported writer. Yet, thousands of years later, we still have nothing.

God gets fairly vicious with those who disagree with him too. A few chapters later he says: "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars - they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

Elizabeth continues, by saying that "Jehovah's Witnesses care about neighbours, and want the best for them." and "I hope we can talk personally; get in touch if you have any Bible questions."

As I have said in the past, anyone who really believes this stuff, and is especially concerned about the prospect of the "fiery lakes", is quite right to try to convert others. It's really no different from Greta Thunberg trying to save us all from climate change, or a politician enacting new policies to avoid financial chaos. I defended Israel Folau who was cancelled for his Christian beliefs about homosexual lifestyles. I think he is wrong, just like I think Elizabeth is wrong, but they are both doing what they think is right, so they get credit for that.

Just to cover God for any existing problems - before he finally gets around to to fixing them all - it is claimed that he does not cause suffering, and the verse supporting this is James 1:13. It says: "When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me.' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." (NIV, verses 13-15)

But many causes of suffering have nothing directly to do with sin (even if it existed), and there seems to be no relationship with the degree of sinfulness and the degree of suffering. Do people get hideous cancers because they have sinned? Did God design the parasite which bores its way into the eye to punish sin? He sure is a sick tyrant if he did. Can we find a better god, please?

But, despite all of this, God feels for us when we suffer. The suggested verse supporting this is Zechariah 2:8, which says: "For this is what the Lord Almighty says: 'After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you - for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye - I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them.'"

This is typical Old Testament stuff. If some of God's followers suffer in any way, God will make the people responsible suffer even more. This seems to create more suffering, not less, although it does apportion it more to the bad (according to God's definiton) than the good, at least.

And to reinforce the idea, there is hope that all suffering will end, in Psalm 37:9-11, it states: "For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the Lord will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy peace and prosperity."

Note the phrase there: "a little while". This psalm is attributed to King David, who lived about 1000 years BCE. It hasn't happened yet, 3000 years later, has it?

Finally, there is a section titled "Can we believe Bible?" That's a good move, because I did mention above that lack of confidence in the Bible is a good reason to reject this person's arguments. But the references given had nothing to do with the accuracy of the Bible, instead they were more sections explaining how God is not responsible for suffering, and cares about the people who do suffer.

So unfortunately, it looks like suffering is not going away any time soon. I would suggest a non-Biblical quote which might be more helpful; that is: "God helps those who help themselves". This is a motto that emphasises the importance of self-initiative and agency, which originated in ancient Greece as "the Gods help those who help themselves". Note that the Bible does have a verse with a similar sentiment: Deuteronomy 28:8 states: "The Lord will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to."

But also note that if you help yourself then you don't really need a god any more, which is just as well, because you won't get any help from him anyway.

So, I'm sorry Elizabeth, but it looks like we need to continue to cope with suffering while relying on ourselves to reduce it as much as possible. We don't need religion for that, we need rationality and science, and I can give some good Richard Dawkins quotes to support this!

Comment 1 (6604) by Anonymous on 2021-05-03 at 11:34:43:

You should go back to your Bible study. There are many things you misunderstand.

Comment 2 (6605) by Anonymous on 2021-05-03 at 13:22:41:

Hmmm, does Pol Pot "get credit for doing what he thought was right"? Extreme example yes, but you can't get credit for doing what "YOU" think is right, right?

Comment 3 (6606) by OJB on 2021-05-03 at 20:20:02:

Well, that's a fair point. But did he really think what he was doing was right? Or did he just do what was best to maintain his own position of power? If he *really* thought his actions were best for everyone, then he does get credit. Obviously, he was wrong about being right, but at least he thought he was right, making him wrong, not evil. I suspect, though, that he knew his actions were immoral, so he wasn't doing what he thought was right.

Comment 4 (6607) by OJB on 2021-05-03 at 20:21:18:

And regarding comment 1: if I misunderstand stuff, please clarify. I am not an expert on the Bible, so if I have got anything wrong, please be specific about what it is.

Comment 5 (6771) by sweetwhispersinmyear on 2021-07-03 at 16:51:05:

in response to OJB: It looks like we need to continue to cope with suffering.
That’s a good thing.

Comment 6 (6772) by OJB on 2021-07-03 at 16:51:24: In what way is it good?

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