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What's Icky?

Entry 2293, on 2023-09-21 at 19:04:34 (Rating 3, News)

I recently read an article describing what they called "relationship icks". In this context, an "ick" is a reaction of disgust to something, so this supposedly lists things that one person might find unpleasant about another. Perhaps inevitably, the article concentrated on what young women find are bad attributes of young men.

The title of the article was: "Joe Rogan podcast, MAGA among leading icks for young women, according to new survey on relationship red flags". Of course, I would normally just ignore this as the usual frivolous hysteria promulgated by the mainstream media, but this time I decided to read it, because I think it reveals something about modern society.

I will start by saying that I am a big fan of Joe Rogan's podcast. And whatever you think of it, there is obviously something there that people like, because it is one of the biggest podcasts in the world, and regularly thrashes mainstream media news and other programming in the number of viewers.

At this point many people will have already switched off because they can't accept that podcasts are a serious medium for distributing information, or think Joe Rogan is just a comedian who cannot be taken seriously, or think his podcast is a major source of misinformation.

Of course, all of those criticisms have some degree of validity, but they are primarily wrong, and tend to reflect opinions held by people who don't listen to podcasts, or have never listened to Joe's, or who have viewed or listened to very few.

The critical thing about the Joe Rogan Experience (JRE) podcast is that it is a quite long (usually 2, 3, or even 4 hours long) casual discussion between Joe Rogan and his guest. And his guests include some very interesting people, many of whom would not get a platform elsewhere. Some might say that they don't get a platform because they don't deserve it because of their extreme opinions, but that attitude is very dangerous.

Both the strength and weakness of the podcast is that guests are allowed to present whatever opinions they want (with some limitations) and are generally accepted by the host. Sometimes claims are checked at the time, but often material is accepted without too much skepticism. And that is fair enough, because the listener should be able to listen to the guest's claims and make up their own mind.

So the occasional podcast is full of doubtful information, especially the guests who support the existence of UFOs, alternative archaeological theories, and to some extent, theories which are anti-establishment, such as anti-vaccine claims.

But listen to any source and you will hear material which isn't true. I prefer to let someone speak and I will decide whether I believe them or not. I don't want the media deciding what I am and aren't allowed to hear, especially since the media have such a high level of political activism now.

So apparently, me listening to this podcast, and deciding for myself what I think is true, is a reason to be tagged with the "ick" label. As I said above, all of the people I have met who rant about how bad the JRE is have either never watched a single episode, or have watched very few, and might have struck a particularly problematic one, just by chance.

So what about "MAGA"? Well, this indicates the person is a Trump supporter, and he is no doubt one of the most divisive figures in the world today. Again, many people just reject anything to do with him, without really thinking about it too much, but there are many really good things about Trump, and I think he did a fairly good job as president, if you look at outcomes rather than petty elements of his personality.

So I would not label myself as a MAGA (Make American Great Again, Trump's main catchphrase), but I'm not prepared to just completely condemn him either. I fully understand how his personality and failure to act like politicians are expected to is problematic, but I am prepared to look at policies and attitudes and evaluate them fairly. No one is all bad or all good. I know this is controversial, but I think I would prefer him to Biden.

I can provide stats and examples of his successes, including for minority groups, which most people might not be aware of, because the mainstream media are grossly biased against him. And that's why following podcasts like the JRE is important. Note that I would not count the JRE or it's guests as being for or against Trump, they just have a more nuanced view than most.

So again, thinking for myself, and considering all sides of the story pushes me into the "ick" category. What other factors were listed? Well, here they are for what women find icky about men, in order of most icky to slightly less icky, and a comment about how I score in that regard...

They identify as a MAGA Republican (partly guilty)
They have no hobbies (basically innocent, although my hobbies might be icky)
They say All Lives Matter (guilty)
They say there are only two genders (nuanced view, but mostly guilty)
They are so unbothered they never ask for details (not sure what this means)
They identify as a communist (definitely innocent)
They listen to Joe Rogan (guilty)
They identify as conservative (more libertarian, but partly guilty)
They refuse to see the Barbie movie (guilty)
They don't care about politics (innocent)
They own a gun (innocent, but not completely anti-gun)
They watch reality dating shows (innocent, what sort of moron would be guilty of that!)
They talk about politics frequently (probably more than I should, guilty)
They are into astrology (innocent, but criticise it a lot)
They identify as liberal (define "liberal". I'm a classical, not a modern liberal)
They frequently post on social media (very guilty)
They say Black Lives Matter (they do, but I don't say it)
They take candid pictures of you (that's creepy)
They are not on social media (innocent)
They have too many hobbies (innocent)
They send green texts (WTF is a green text?)
They prefer cow milk over any non-dairy milk (not a fan of either)
Researching for best deals and rates before buying (only for big items)
They read (not as much as I used to, but really? that is icky?)
They look better in person (this is bad?)

Note that avoiding ickiness is impossible, because in some cases, opposites are both considered bad (no hobbies and too many hobbies, saying All Lives Matter and saying Black Lives Matter) so you can't win!

The icky things men look out for in women were similar, but men found the following higher on the ick scale: identifying as a communist, being into astrology, saying Black Lives Matter, identifying as liberal. And they found these significantly less icky: saying there are only two genders, owning a gun, not caring about politics, identifying as a MAGA (although that was still quite high).

So it seems there is broad agreement between the two (really? just two) genders being surveyed, but there were a few differences which broadly correspond to women being more left leaning than men, confirming what I have said in several other posts.

So I guess I'm just moderately icky according to that, not that I would care if I was. It is rather unfortunate that many of these factors do get back to politically correct norms, rather than anything more substantial. If anything is icky it's the fact that so many people use the criteria they do. Still, there's no surprises there.

Comment 1 (7497) by Anonymous on 2023-09-29 at 16:35:11:

Well you are more icky than me and anyone else I know. I hope you're OK with that.

Comment 2 (7498) by OJB on 2023-09-30 at 10:36:45:

Well, sure. I'm not too concerned about adhering to societal norms. I'm more interested in thinking for myself, and if that some people think that's a problem, then just tell me why. Too many sheeple around, IMHO.

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