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Moral Decline

Entry 633, on 2007-11-01 at 21:12:08 (Rating 4, Religion)

I always enjoy reading the public opinion page in our local newspaper. Its a repository of bizarre and unsubstantiated comments on a variety of subjects - but the most amusing are, not surprisingly, the religious ones.

A common view, which was put forward in a recent short piece, was that the inevitable decline into immorality facing our country (New Zealand) can only be arrested by a return to accepting the Bible as God's word and appreciating the moral guidance and salvation from sin it contains.

The writer came from a town called Bulls which probably explains the distinct aroma of bullshit his writings contained. Many people have seen the short comment about the decline of society and the immorality of the younger generation attributed to a Greek philosopher (I think it was Plato). Obviously the decline of society has been a topic of concern for many years!

I saw a "Russel's Teapot" cartoon on the Internet recently which featured a teacher blaming American societal problems on the fact they have "turned their back on God". A child in the class observed that Norway is one of the most atheist countries on Earth but also one of the most functional and moral. It was a cartoon but it seemed realistic and, sure enough, when I checked the stats they were right.

Norway does have a high rate of disbelief - only 10% identify themselves as Christian. But Norway is rated the most peaceful nation on Earth, it has a tiny unemployment rate and enjoys some of the highest wages, longest life expectancy, and is near the top for literacy, education and standard of living. I know these factors don't necessarily equate to morality (which is a rather subjective notion with many definitions) but I think they are good practical indicators.

Its apparent that lack of Christian belief is not a certain route to social disaster. Maybe its the other way around in fact. It seems the most religious countries are the ones with the greatest problems. I can only wonder what would happen if Norway could get rid of the last 10% who are still Christians. Maybe they would have even less problems then!

Comment 12 (1228) by OJB on 2008-03-01 at 11:16:39: (view earlier comments)

You don't sign up to atheism. You seem to refuse to accept this. Atheism is just not having a religion. Do people sign up to supporting no political party? No.

The quote was in the original Wikipedia entry and was removed, probably rightly so because it wasn't backed up with evidence. We really aren't getting anywhere here because we are back to the old problem of "what is a Christian".

Comment 13 (1233) by SBFL on 2008-03-01 at 18:57:01:

You are changing the topic, but generally people declare themselves an atheist.

The original Wiki article? I thought I provided this source? It was never there when I first brought it up. You never mentioned using it as a source in your post.

bug report: When you click on "View earlier comments" your text (unplublished) in the new comment box blanks (as does the name and anti-spam number).

Comment 14 (1234) by OJB on 2008-03-01 at 20:55:18:

Yes many people declare themselves as atheists just as many declare themselves politically neutral. Neither of those situations involve being tied up with a belief system.

Look, I copy and pasted that from Wikipedia. It was changed shortly after that. I admit that the Wikipedia article shouldn't have had the extra bit in it anyway. What's the problem here?

Thanks for the bug report. Its not really a bug, just the way the system works. But its worth tidying it up anyway. I'll look at these issues when I get the time. In the mean time don't click the view earlier comments link while editing your entry!

Comment 15 (1250) by SBFL on 2008-03-10 at 03:28:20:

"Neither of those situations involve being tied up with a belief system." It is a belief system because they have beliefs. Pretty simple LOGIC I would have thought.

No problem, but the facts I linked to stand. Happy to look outside Wikipedia for religious affiliation of Norway if you wish.

Comment 16 (1251) by OJB on 2008-03-10 at 09:11:17:

Yes, I agree that a belief involves believing something. But by rejecting specific political beliefs and becoming politically neutral, or rejecting religious beliefs and becoming an atheist it seems to me that a person would be avoiding a belief system. And its not logic, its more semantics, I think.

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